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A fan of 18th C. sail: which game to mod?

T

Tumulorum Fossor

Landlubber
Hi, Pirates Ahoy!

I just got a brand spanking new laptop (my old one was from back in the XP days), and to celebrate, I 've decided to get some new PC gaming experiences.

I've always been a fan of age-of-sail (the historic period, not referring to an actual game here). But haven't played anything of that genre since the OLD OLD OLD Ancient Art Of War at Sea (gasp!).

I HAVE played the Starfleet Command games extensively, which have a scifi feel to age-of-sail combat, and they're GREAT, but I still really want to play in the 17th-18th centuries frankly. And I figured, heck, since Ancient Art Of War At Sea, there MUST be a ton of cool games. But turns out, I couldn't find any. (Sid Meier's PIRATES! is okay, but I REALLY want the more sophisticated ship-to-ship or fleet combat stuff rather than the cartoony stuff, which is how I remember PIRATES! (though fun)).

Then I stumbled on YOUR site. So near as I can figure, developer Akella has come up with the best games for what interests me:
-Sea Dogs (2000)
-Pirates Of The Caribbean (2003)
-Age Of Pirates: Caribbean Tales (2006)
-Age Of Pirates 2: City Of Abandoned Ships (2009)

And near as I can figure, the games, while not BAD, were pretty average until the mod community, with Akella's help, took over.

Now, as I understand it, the two predominant outstanding mods for someone with my interests (ship to ship or fleet combat, with wind gauge, different shot, etc.) would be:
-Pirates Of The Caribbean: "New Horizons (aka Build 14)."
-Age Of Pirates 2: City Of Abandoned Ships: "Gentlemen Of Fortune."

I've actually tracked down a copy of Pirates Of The Caribbean, and it's on its way from the UK right now! So I will definitely be trying New Horizons out.

My questions are as follows:

-For fans of realistically dramatic ship-to-ship and/or fleet combat, what's the best choice of game/mod?

-Is Age Of Pirates 2: CoAS significantly better in terms of game/graphics engine than PotC, as it is a newer piece of software, or has the modding of both those titles pretty much evened out the quality?

-When I finally get my copy of PotC, should I not even bother playing the base game, and go directly to the New Horizons mod without losing significant game experience? It seems like New Horizons takes all the content of PotC, but simply turns it up to eleven, rather than REPLACING it, strictly speaking. So if I understand correctly, I should go directly to the mod once I install PotC.(?)

-Any other games/mods that I should look into?

Can't wait to try this out. So thrilled to see so many people here that seem to have the same tastes as I!
(That said, if none of you have tried Starfleet Command, Starfleet Command II: Empires At War, Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates, or [not as much] Starfleet Command III, I think some of you would enjoy a brief visit to the 23rd century...).

Thanks for any advice!

-TF
 
Ahoy Tumulorum Fossor, welcome aboard mate! :dance

POTC and CoAS are the best games to give you the full 3D experience, they do have their flaws, but there is no other game that even comes close to giving you the kind of experience you are looking for. I have been looking for decades for the same experience myself. I have played many of the games you have mentioned and while the 23'rd century can indeed be a great distraction, there is just no substitute for billowing sails and booming cannon!

Both games use pretty much the same Storm engine, but while CoAS has been updated with a few enhancements that do improve the graphics experience a bit, it also introduces some unwanted "fixes" that can be quite annoying. One example of this is there is fog everywhere, a meteorological rarity in the Caribbean. CoAS also has waves that are much more consistent with the North Atlantic or Cape Horn. There are some things that CoAS does well however, it has a very good P.I.R.A.T.E.S. skill system that does make leveling a bit more realistic, and the combat is a bit more realistic as well. Even without the GOF Mod, CoAS has some fantastic story lines and some really great game play, it is really quite challenging!

The stock version of POTC on the other hand has much more detailed and nation specific town architecture, and a more realistic looking Caribbean. Thanks to Disney though, the original story was changed to try and fit the first POTC movies, which really hurts the stock game in my opinion. I would recommend that you play the stock version a bit before you install New Horizons mod, just to get a better feel for what the Build Mod ads to the game, it is really quite a dramatic change! This mod has been worked on for almost a decade now, so it has quite a bit more content than the GOF mod for CoAS. Because of that, I would say the modded version of POTC is probably the better game, but they are both good in their own respects though, and I highly recommend that you play them both if you can track down a copy of CoAS!

In my opinion, Sea Dogs is still my favorite, but that is mainly because it was the first and left a lasting impression. If you still have your old XP laptop and can track down a copy, Sea Dogs is well worth playing as well, and Hoesehead's fantastic mod for it adds greatly to that experience as well!

There have also been some interesting developments over the past year or so, and it appears that there may be some new competition to the old games coming soon. Although it doesn't look like anything near as realistic as we would want. It seems most game companies are only interested in producing eye candy instead of substance.
 
There have also been some interesting developments over the past year or so, and it appears that there may be some new competition to the old games coming soon.
Click to expand...

-Thagarr, can you be more specific? To what developments do you refer? New mods, or new titles altogether?

I'll also try to track down CoAS, by the way, but it looks like between the two, at least for now, PotC is the way to go. Here's hoping someone goes all Master And Commander on this theme, though!

-Oh, any thoughts on East India Company? Seems like a different experience, and more of an economic RTS than anything.
 
:ahoy mate!

COAS with the GOF mod is a good looking game that will keep you happy for some time. It has advanced combat and more detailed ship armaments.

POTC with Build 14 beta 2.2 is the more realistic pure sailing game. I don't know how many ships GOF produces at one time, but I have seen well over 20 ships in POTC in one battle. That qualifies as a fleet action to me. :ship

That brings up the subject of hardware. You have a laptop? I hope it is a powerful one with a good graphics card. If it has Intel graphics you will be disappointed as neither of these games works well with it.

Yes, play stock POTC first. You will be amazed at the difference when you mod it. The original story line is still there, but has been enhanced with more side quests. And then there are other quests to get involved with.

While you are waiting you should browse the forums to get a feel for what the modders are up to. There is lots of info sprinkled around. Try starting at the top of the page with Pirates Ahoy News.
 
Hylie Pistof said:
I hope it is a powerful one with a good graphics card. If it has Intel graphics you will be disappointed as neither of these games works well with it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am fortunate in that it has a AMD Radeon 7970. So it should be powerful (though the drivers for the Radeon as I understand are new and a bit skittish now, enabling Intel integrated graphics at undesirable times, so that might be an issue).

I'm more concerned over Win7 compatibility, but as I scanned the FAQ, I THINK as long as I don't install to the default folder, then I should be okay. Or maybe if I right click the installed folder and deselect the "Read Only" box...
... but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.


Yes, play stock POTC first. You will be amazed at the difference when you mod it.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you mean play JUST enough of stock PotC so I can appreciate the improvements of PotC:NH! :) Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

Based on Thagarr's recommendation, I just bought AoP2:CoAS as well just now. So it'll be arriving in bit. Hopefully Win7 will behave there, as well!

The East India Collection was being offered with it for like $4 (curse you, amazon!), so I snagged it, too. But that SEEMS to be more of an RTS than PotC or AoP2 (WOW! I'm using abbreviations now! :) )

Thanks for the input!
 
About drivers, the latest ones from both Nvidia and ATI are buggy and should not be used. I am using the ATI 12.3 drivers with no problems in a desktop.
 
Tumulorum Fossor said:
-Thagarr, can you be more specific?
Click to expand...

Certainly, there is a new Mount & Blade engine based game called Caribbean that will be released in October. There is also some naval warfare in the new Assassin's Creed III that will also be released later this year, although that feels more arcadey and more like just an addon to the game, it does look quite good graphics wise though. And there is a Russian CoAS mod that is currently being worked on that does look quite promising as well.

Also, there was a game announced a couple of years ago that was supposed to be an authentic, historically accurate pirate game called Raven's Cry. Unfortunately they chose to make it as close to a Disney clone as they could without getting sued, kraken and voodoo included, and added in a bunch of blood and gore and decapitation to try and make it authentically piratey! :rolleyes:

I really had high hopes for this last one, but from what I have found out, combined with the fact that after a year they have still refused to answer any of our questions, I have pretty much given up on this game and really have no intention of ever playing it.

Plus we may have a bit of a surprise up our sleeves as well, we are currently trying to iron out all the details and hopefully soon we can make our intentions all official and public, stay tuned!
 
Wow! Caribbean looks cool from that link you provided. I don't know anything about Mount & Blade (though coincidentally, I saw it for sale for $10 at my local OfficeMax this morning... weird coincidence...).

Assassin's Creed? Hmm. MAY-be. I'll believe it when I see it. Kind of how I would feel of playing age-of-sail as part of a new Halo game.

Since I now officially have CoAS on order, I will definitely be watching for that new Russian mod.

Too bad about Raven's Cry.

Any thoughts on the East India Company Collection?

Also, any thoughts on Empire: Total War (which has a naval battle component, though the Total War series is tradtiionally land based, of course)?
 
EIC? Nice for a couple of hours, but not enough meat on the bone, gameplay-wise.
You´re much better off with Age of Pirates 2 + Gof and/or PotC+New Horizons :)
 
I was very excited about East India Company when it was first announced back in 2004, it was going to be a much better game then than what it ended up being. It was supposed to have the economy of Patrician and the strategy 1602 and naval combat in Age Of Sail, but in a fully 3D realistic environment. Visually the game does look pretty good, but I have never played it so my opinion is basically all based on several reviews I have read and videos I have watched, it's not really a bad game, but could have been much better. Perhaps I was just expecting to much from it, I may still pick it up one of these days.

I haven't really looked in to Empire: Total War that much, though I did play a bit of the earlier Rome and Viking games, and they were really quite good. From what I have heard though that same gameplay didn't transfer well to naval combat. But I could be mistaken, as I have never played it either.
 
Hylie Pistof said:
Ok, you have seen what the professionals have done, now visit these sites and see what us players have done with images and videos.
Pirates of the Caribbean: New Horizons mod - Mod DB
Gentlemen Of Fortune mod for Age of Pirates II: City of Abandoned Ships - Mod DB
Click to expand...

Aye, Hylie! Fine footage, there! Indeed, it is for that reason alone why I have chosen to trade some doubloons for both works, PotC and AoP2:CoAS, sight unseen! Just 24 hours ago, didn't know about ANY of this basically since Ancient Art Of War At Sea...
... and now I've got both titles on their way!

Thanks in advance to the mod community!

Oh, any idea if "CoAS:To Each His Own" will be compatible with "CoAS:GoF"? I would think it's waaaayyyy too early to know, but since this thread seems to be taking shape as the "State Of The Game Genre" thread, might as well ask...
 
I personally believe that "To Each his Own" will be compatible and that we will be able to mod the crap out of it. I think it will breathe new life into the COAS modding community.

We have fleet battles in COAS: GOF as well, but right now they are not very stable at the higher levels with the bigger ships in GOF1.2. I've fixed most of those problems in my Era's mod. In my new mod I incorporate Saint Ashley's eight ships mod. This expands you beyond only controlling fleets of four in POTC and five in COAS to now commanding fleets of eight. The most ships I've seen during testing so far are 24. However there is the potential of three factions being in a single battle with your ships added. If each faction had ten ships and you eight, that gives the potential of having 38 ships in a single battle - definitely fleet action material. Take a look at some of my vids to get an idea. MK


 
Did some reading on your Eras mod for COAS, and it looks wonderful. Looks like you've been working on it for some time, which is not surprising given how ambitious it is.

Do you envision COAS: Eras as a standalone, or integrared within GoF?

As a side note, there appears to be quite a few mod development lines for both titles, PotC and AoP2:CoAS.

It's a little challenging for me to figure out what mods are planned to eventually be part of Build14 for PotC, or GoF for AoP2:CoAS (which seem to be the mainstream 'New Foundation' mods for the commercial titles), if they aren't already integrated.

"Eras" is a great example. It seems like it would make sense to simply integrate it into GoF.

But what about something like the PotC Music Pack? Certainly NOT COMPLAINING about the volume of fan developed quality material out there. Just observing that it can be a bit overwhelming to someone who approaches recently, and has not been following these past years. So the more integration, the better, i guess is what I am saying.

As of today, what would everyone agree are the key "secondary mods" not already integrated within Build14 or GoF?



... MAN, I can't WAIT for my DVDs to arrive so I can stop writing about playing, and can actually start playing!
 
GoF Eras will be a standalone mod. It is too different from 1.2. I actually went back to a much earlier version for better stability and built upon that. I also use way too much new content from New Horizons and the old AOP:CT for it to simply be a patch that can be placed atop one of the GOF mods.

I envy you. I was in heaven when I first found AOP and Cyberop's Supermod for it. I have never stopped playing since that time, and the other games I love are always temporary diversions that always have me coming back to the Storm games.

MK
 
Welcome to the forum, mate! It's good to see another person here as enthusiastic about these types of games as the other people here are.

I think most of the important stuff has already been covered very well by our other members,
but I'd like to clarify on your question of what content will be in the PotC Build Mod and which content will not:
Basically, Build 14 is intended to have everything included with no additional seperate stuff.
The music packs should be largely compatible with the latest Build 14 version as well.

For CoAS, it seems the situation is a bit different as the GoF mod, Eras and To Each His Own will be mutually exclusive.
Of course we do have the intention to incorporate as much as possible intoo our PA! mods once To Each Is Own is released.
But that'll be a while and who knows what we're all up to by that time?

If the Eras mod for CoAS sounds interesting to you,
have a look through our New Horizons pages on details of the Periods mod that has been incorporated.
That, together with the Storylines mod, basically makes New Horizons into several new games with different stories and different time settings.

In any case, I hope you'll enjoy our work and enjoy your stay here with us. :doff
 
Thanks for the welcome, Mr. Boelen!

I still eagerly await the deliveries of my copies of PotC and CoAS, and I am mentally preparing for what I want my first experience to be.

I THINK I'm going to just plain START at PotC Build 14, as CoAS seems to be a little divergent at this point in development.

If I understand you correctly, Build14/New Horizons already has "Periods," which, you're right, appears to be right up my alley!

So PotC:NH (with Periods & Storylines integrated), HERE I COME!

Thanks for all your work, community! I don't have much time to play games, so when I play, I want it to be EXACTLY what I feel like playing.

And this feels right!


OH QUICK QUESTION!!!:
-I know one should NOT INSTALL TO DEFAULT "Program Files". But though i have windows on my C: drive, I keep most of my games under a "D: Program Files" folder. So i have a secondary Program Files folder that has the exact same folder name as most default installs use, except on my D drive.

Should that be okay for PotC?
And does the same restriction on install folder apply to AoP:CoAS?

Thanks in advance!
 
Hmm. Good question. My D: drive used to be my C: drive so it still has "program files" in it. I just right clicked on it and then checked "properties" and looked around, then did the same to "program files" on my C: drive.
The security stuff is different! There is lotsa stuff in C:, but D: looks to be normal. So, without trying it myself it looks like it will work. Good luck!
 
I think you should be ok to install to Program Files on drive D: mate, as long as it is not a system disk, I don't believe windows "security feature" will mess with it any. Personally, I think it would be better to install it to D:\Games\ or something similar, but you should be fine either way mate.

The good thing about POTC, after you install it, you can just copy or move the folder wherever you want without having to reinstall, it doesn't put anything in the registry and all you would have to do is update your shortcuts if you decide to move it to a different location. I would also recommend that you preform a hard drive defrag regularly, it really makes a big difference with this game! Also installing DirectX 9 will help with game performance as well.
 
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