Included in Build New ships for the French navy

[Grey Roger]

The Revolutionary French navy (i.e. France in "Revolutions" and "Napoleonic" periods) is short of ships. It has its own versions of the big battlewagons but not much in the way of frigates.

I'm planning to correct this. Here's France's version of "HMS_Greyhound", the 6th rate frigate:


There's also going to be "FR_Surprise", France's version of the "Unité" class, which is overdue as according to "ShipModels_description.txt" that's supposed to be a French design.

And then there's this:

That's supposed to be the French version of the "Essex" class, but it has the "RN_Hull1.tga" texture, which is why it has British-style cream-coloured stripes. Here's what it would look like with "FR_Hull1.tga", giving it the same red stripes as other French ships such as "FR_Bellona":

Which version do people prefer?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'm planning to correct this.

There's also going to be "FR_Surprise", France's version of the "Unité" class, which is overdue as according to "ShipModels_description.txt" that's supposed to be a French design.

Is the Boussole not a French Surprise version? I thought we already had that.
But that one does bear a royalist paint scheme, if I recall. So Napoleon may not be too happy with that....

That's supposed to be the French version of the "Essex" class, but it has the "RN_Hull1.tga" texture, which is why it has British-style cream-coloured stripes. Here's what it would look like with "FR_Hull1.tga", giving it the same red stripes as other French ships such as "FR_Bellona":
Which version do people prefer?

Are you saying that the already-existing FR_Essex at the moment looks just like the RN_Essex? That's rather pointless, for sure.
Probably a mistake more than anything else, so by all means, bring back her French livery!

If you're doing work on ship models, be sure to use the 29 Nov 2015 versions as reference. Those have had a lot of locator/texture errors fixed.
And here are some more post-release updates: Index of /potc/pedrwyth/nov 29 ship errors
Just to make sure that all the work you do does make use of the latest improvements to them.

 

[Grey Roger]

The 29th November release is looking pretty dodgy and I imagine a new update will be along shortly, but I have indeed been extracting files from there. And I've now redone "FR_Surprise" based on the updated "RN_Surprise" from @pedrwyth.

Current "FR_Essex" isn't quite identical to "RN_Essex"; the bow and the stern cabin have white detail while "RN_Essex" has the details in the same cream colour as the hull.

"Boussole" is France's version of "HMS_Indefatigable", except that "Boussole" is valid for "Colonial Powers" and "Revolutions" while "HMS_Indefatigable" is valid for "Revolutions" and "Napoleonic". I may as well make a modern version for use in "Napoleonic".

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The 29th November release is looking pretty dodgy and I imagine a new update will be along shortly, but I have indeed been extracting files from there.

Indeed I wasn't particularly suggesting trying to do any playing with that version.
Just as a source for the more up-to-date ship model files.

"Boussole" is France's version of "HMS_Indefatigable", except that "Boussole" is valid for "Colonial Powers" and "Revolutions"

Ah, yes; now I remember. The "Boussole" is based on an OLD version of the Surprise (we had like a million). At the time, the Indefatigable was actually a retextured Waller Pinnace.
Then when we were doing "the big ship cleanup" and kicked a bunch of old and low-detail ships out of the mod, we also decided to reduce the number of Surprise variations.
So we kept one film version (HMS_Surprise) and one historical version (RN_Surprise).
The Boussole was based on an older version of the Surprise and then we used the English version of that same model to replace the Indefatigable.
Make sense yet?

 

[Grey Roger]

And now you have another "Surprise" variation. Or at least, you will if I manage to get this lot into the game. I've yet to sort out the photo shoots for the interface pictures. Meanwhile, here's French Indy, a.k.a. Boussole in post-revolution colour scheme:


And with new stern art, too:


This one was a pain, harder than the others put together. Main hull, stern cabin, bow beak, bits connecting the beak to the main hull, keel and rudder were in different files. On the plus side, now I've made up new versions of all of them, it won't be so hard for any further ships - hopefully. While I was looking for those files, I found there were several different mermaids, which is why this ship gets a golden one.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

And now you have another "Surprise" variation. Or at least, you will if I manage to get this lot into the game.

I'm sure you'll manage it. The texture work is the hardest. And possibly the rerigging if you think that needs doing.
You've added a new ship into the game before; you know how that goes. No real mysteries there....

While I was looking for those files, I found there were several different mermaids, which is why this ship gets a golden one.

It suits her!

 

[Grey Roger]

I've got screen shots for "FR_6th_Rate" and "FR_Boussole2" (formerly "FR_Greyhound" and "FR_Indy", it just didn't seem right keeping the British names for the French ships ):


And now I have a problem. I can't get the interface picture for "FR_Boussole2" to appear, and I can't figure out why. "pictures.ini" puts the picture of "FR_Boussole2" at 1537,769,1792,1024 in "shipsTR.tga". It's certainly there, and even if it weren't I'd expect a wrong interface picture (wrong ship or a black square, which is what's in unoccupied spaces) rather than the blank sea in the free-play ship selection and the default ghost-like ship in the shipyard interface. "FR_6th_Rate" gets its interface picture from the same file, successfully. So here are the relevant text files. (The file of interface pictures is far too big to upload here, if you want to see it then I'll put it on the ftp site.) Any idea what's wrong?

I'll deal with the other two ("FR_Essex" and "FR_Unite", formerly "FR_Surprise") when I have these two working properly.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

And now I have a problem. I can't get the interface picture for "FR_Boussole2" to appear, and I can't figure out why. "pictures.ini" puts the picture of "FR_Boussole2" at 1537,769,1792,1024 in "shipsTR.tga". It's certainly there, and even if it weren't I'd expect a wrong interface picture (wrong ship or a black square, which is what's in unoccupied spaces) rather than the blank sea in the free-play ship selection and the default ghost-like ship in the shipyard interface. "FR_6th_Rate" gets its interface picture from the same file, successfully. So here are the relevant text files. (The file of interface pictures is far too big to upload here, if you want to see it then I'll put it on the ftp site.) Any idea what's wrong?

Try replacing this:

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS1"; // Armada

With this:

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS2"; // Armada

I suspect that will solve the problem. There are four different TGAs with ship screenshots.
In pictures.ini these are named "SHIPS1"-"SHIPS4" and each ships_init.c entry needs to have a line specifying which of these it should use.

Thanks for posting all those files as well. That allowed me to quickly check this without needing access to my own game files.

"FR_6th_Rate" and "FR_Boussole2" (formerly "FR_Greyhound" and "FR_Indy", it just didn't seem right keeping the British names for the French ships )

LOL! You do know the model names themselves don't appear in the game in any way, right?

Actually, might you reconsider using the English names after all? I agree it doesn't make logical sense, but it can often be useful to tell which ships share the same GM files from their folder name.
If you see "FR_Greyhound" and "HMS_Greyhound", it would be much more obvious that if you make any upgrades to one of the two, the other should be updated to match as well.
Otherwise there may be an increased risk of one of the two getting outdated at some point.

Just something to consider.

 

[pedrwyth]

Actually, might you reconsider using the English names after all? I agree it doesn't make logical sense, but it can often be useful to tell which ships share the same GM files from their folder name.
If you see "FR_Greyhound" and "HMS_Greyhound", it would be much more obvious that if you make any upgrades to one of the two, the other should be updated to match as well.

I would second that - having just trawled through all the ships ( bar some more complicated ones left with @Hylie Pistof ) it was a lot easier/quicker to remove the locators giving bad rope logs as a group of ships sharing a model(s) knowing that having found where they were in one the same bad rope numbers were in the same sub-models for the all the "group". Where it was obvious by name it was a good quick double check - although keeping them as the next model in sequence, as I think you have, also helps. The first time I just went alphabetically through the list of model directories which scattered the similar models and without the name similarity I wouldn't have known which went together - however the "in console" loop puts them in index order so keeps adjacent ships in ships_init together in the loop (once you know that!).

 

[Grey Roger]

Try replacing this:

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS1"; // Armada

With this:

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS2"; // Armada

I suspect that will solve the problem. There are four different TGAs with ship screenshots.

Doh! I knew there are different TGA's - that's one reason why I've done these two, they're both in "shipsTR.tga". So I should have spotted that!

Actually, might you reconsider using the English names after all? I agree it doesn't make logical sense, but it can often be useful to tell which ships share the same GM files from their folder name.
If you see "FR_Greyhound" and "HMS_Greyhound", it would be much more obvious that if you make any upgrades to one of the two, the other should be updated to match as well.

Fair enough, I've renamed everything back again.

Now to add to the confusion. Because of the history you described, "HMS_Indefatigable", "FR_Indefatigable" and "FR_Boussole" all have 'refShip.Model = "Surprise"', which means I can't use "Surprise" as the shared model name for the Surprises. At least, not unless I change those first. Since "RN_Surprise" and "FR_Surprise" are now actually supposed to be the "Unité" class frigate, I'm using 'refShip.Model = "Unite"' instead.

Both "HMS_Greyhound" and "FR_Greyhound" are made available to "Napoleonic" era. We already know of one "HMS_Greyhound" operating in that time period. Its opponent in its last currently scheduled sea battle must also be around then. On the other hand, since both England and France have "Postillionen" versions which are more suitable for earlier periods, neither will be available in "Golden Age of Piracy", "HMS_Greyhound" will be less common in "Colonial Powers" and "FR_Greyhound" won't appear in "Colonial Powers" at all.

And now for something really odd. Take a look at "shipsTL.tga", or find some way to get yourself a "FR_Essex" in game and look at its interface picture. It already seems to have the red hull, and I didn't do that - not to the interface picture, anyway. It seems "FR_Essex" may have had a French-style red hull at one time and someone changed it to a British-style cream hull!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Now to add to the confusion. Because of the history you described, "HMS_Indefatigable", "FR_Indefatigable" and "FR_Boussole" all have 'refShip.Model = "Surprise"', which means I can't use "Surprise" as the shared model name for the Surprises. At least, not unless I change those first. Since "RN_Surprise" and "FR_Surprise" are now actually supposed to be the "Unité" class frigate, I'm using 'refShip.Model = "Unite"' instead.

Makes sense to me. refShip.model can be absolutely anything anyway. As long as it is shared only between ships with the same base model, it is fine.
Reason is that it defines what models you can "repaint" into others.

There is only one place in the game where you get to see the actual text: The Select Storyline "Choose Ship" selection filter.
So whatever you choose, it helps if it "displays nicely".

Both "HMS_Greyhound" and "FR_Greyhound" are made available to "Napoleonic" era. We already know of one "HMS_Greyhound" operating in that time period. Its opponent in its last currently scheduled sea battle must also be around then. On the other hand, since both England and France have "Postillionen" versions which are more suitable for earlier periods, neither will be available in "Golden Age of Piracy", "HMS_Greyhound" will be less common in "Colonial Powers" and "FR_Greyhound" won't appear in "Colonial Powers" at all.

For the Postillionen, you may want to check with @Hylie Pistof as well regarding their period appearance. If I recall, there are "early" and "late" type rigs for that one.
Anyway, those changes sound fine with me as well.

 

[Grey Roger]

Makes sense to me. refShip.model can be absolutely anything anyway. As long as it is shared only between ships with the same base model, it is fine.
Reason is that it defines what models you can "repaint" into others.

That is why I did it. I'd already added 'refShip.Model = "6th_Rate"' to both "HMS_Greyhound" and "FR_Greyhound" for the same reason.

For the Postillionen, you may want to check with @Hylie Pistof as well regarding their period appearance. If I recall, there are "early" and "late" type rigs for that one.

I haven't touched the Postillionen. The point is, both "RN_Postillionen" and "FR_Postillionen" are available in periods 2 and 3, so the more modern "HMS_Greyhound" and "FR_Greyhound" don't need to be there as well. Especially not "FR_Greyhound" in its post-revolution colour scheme!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The point is, both "RN_Postillionen" and "FR_Postillionen" are available in periods 2 and 3, so the more modern "HMS_Greyhound" and "FR_Greyhound" don't need to be there as well. Especially not "FR_Greyhound" in its post-revolution colour scheme!

Sounds good. And makes the different periods a bit more unique again too.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

There is only one version of the Postillionen with the old style sails.

The smaller Neptunus comes in early and late models.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There is only one version of the Postillionen with the old style sails.

The smaller Neptunus comes in early and late models.

Ah, thanks for confirmed; apparently I'm mixing up my ships....

 

[Grey Roger]

The correction to the entry for "FR_Boussole2" (now renamed back to "FR_Indefatigable") in "Ships_init.c" worked. Thanks, @Pieter Boelen!

I think I've found out why "FR_Essex" was changed to have a cream-coloured hull. Spot the difference:


The one on the left is the re-reddened "FR_Essex", the one on the right is the Spanish version "SP_Essex". The French one has white bow and stern detail, the Spanish one has the details in yellow. Both have the same red hull because both use "Fr_Hull01.tga". But if it's a choice between the French version looking like the British version or the Spanish version, then at least the Spanish one is on the same side.

Meanwhile, here's the Unité class frigate, alias "FR_Surprise":


And here's the finished product:
http://piratesahoy.bowengames.com/potc/Grey Roger/new_french_ships.zip
Included is a version of "Nk.c" with a couple of French promotion reward ships changed to use these new types. This is based on the 29th November version of "Nk.c", into which some functions have been moved from elsewhere. If, after installing this mod, your game fails to start, it probably means you have an older installation - that version of "Nk.c" fouled up my own game, which is still the 5th November version, for example. In that case delete "Nk.c" and rename "NK_old.c" to "Nk.c". That's the 5th November version of "Nk.c" with the same changes to promotion rewards.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Very awesome! Thanks a lot.

The one on the left is the re-reddened "FR_Essex", the one on the right is the Spanish version "SP_Essex". The French one has white bow and stern detail, the Spanish one has the details in yellow. Both have the same red hull because both use "Fr_Hull01.tga". But if it's a choice between the French version looking like the British version or the Spanish version, then at least the Spanish one is on the same side.

True, that.

I wonder... could the Spanish be given a different shade of red? Or some more details so you can see she's not French?

 

[Grey Roger]

The Spanish flag ought to be a bit of a giveaway.

There are two problems with giving the Spanish ship a different shade of red. One is that exact shade depends as much on ambient lighting as on actual shade, so unless the French and Spanish ships are in close proximity, good luck telling which shade of red you're looking at. (See if you can spot the difference between "FR_SotL" and "SP_SotL", which do have slightly different shades of red.) The other is that there's "RN_Hull_01.tga" and "FR_Hull_01.tga" but no "SP_Hull_01.tga". A few minutes with Photoshop and TXConverter would see to that, but then we'd also need "SP_Hull1.tga", and then either change or create Spanish versions of various ships to use them. Anyway, Spain doesn't even have its own version of several ships, it just uses the French versions.

However, if you can suggest suitable hull colours for Holland then I should be able to knock up "NL_Hull1.tga" and "NL_Hull_01.tga". There's already "PO_Hull_01.tga", which is a bit darker and more textured than "RN_Hull_01.tga" and has a white underside instead of the British copper-plated underside. Then everyone can have their own version of "Greyhound". (Apart from pirates. The description of "HMS_Greyhound" in "ShipModels_descriptions.txt" is "A small, agile, British frigate used to hunt pirates. Beware, ye scurvy dogs!" Not exactly suitable for pirates, then. Though there's an obvious solution if you really want a pirate version.)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The Spanish flag ought to be a bit of a giveaway.

There are two problems with giving the Spanish ship a different shade of red. One is that exact shade depends as much on ambient lighting as on actual shade, so unless the French and Spanish ships are in close proximity, good luck telling which shade of red you're looking at. (See if you can spot the difference between "FR_SotL" and "SP_SotL", which do have slightly different shades of red.) The other is that there's "RN_Hull_01.tga" and "FR_Hull_01.tga" but no "SP_Hull_01.tga". A few minutes with Photoshop and TXConverter would see to that, but then we'd also need "SP_Hull1.tga", and then either change or create Spanish versions of various ships to use them. Anyway, Spain doesn't even have its own version of several ships, it just uses the French versions.

Very true. By my reasoning, I figure that the variations should either be notably different in some way or we might as well delete the Spanish version and have Spain use the French one.
As you say, that already applies to several of the other ones anyway. If the added variety doesn't add much of anything to the game, I don't see a need for there being one.

However, if you can suggest suitable hull colours for Holland then I should be able to knock up "NL_Hull1.tga" and "NL_Hull_01.tga". There's already "PO_Hull_01.tga", which is a bit darker and more textured than "RN_Hull_01.tga" and has a white underside instead of the British copper-plated underside.

For Holland, I always like a green stern with gold decoration. But I think that was more of a Golden Age VOC/WIC thing.
Still, it looks nice and different from the other nations.

But I'm not saying we really need more variations.
All I do mean is that if we DO have custom variations, I'd want them to actually be somewhat notably different or we might as well not have them at all.
So I'd be quite happy to remove "SP_Essex" and call it a day.

 

[Grey Roger]

"SP_Essex" is different from "FR_Essex", if only slightly. Besides, if we do ever change Spain's (or France's) textures so that they're different, it would be nice if both "SP_" and "FR_" versions of "Essex" and "SoTL" are still there.

Do you have any idea what colours Dutch ships were painted in the late 18th and early 19th century? Otherwise I'm half inclined to do the Portuguese versions of both "Greyhound" and "Surprise" and let the Dutch share those. (At the moment they share the British versions, but that's only because up until recently everyone shared them.) If I do create the Portuguese versions, I won't bother adding new interface pictures - the Portuguese texture is close enough to the British one that they can share interface pictures and not take up more of the rather limited free space still remaining in the interface picture files. US versions, on the other hand, will look different and require new interface pictures. If this goes on much longer we're going to need a fifth interface picture file...