Waste of polygones in detailed Ornaments...?

[HundertzehnGustav]

... on certain of my most favorite Washtubs, Alpha channels are used to display the netting where hammocks are stored in combat.
alpha channels are also used in the transparency/dirt of windows, instead of using a transparent and blueish color.

On others, a ridiculous amount of polygones are used to create figurines and details that , visually, make very little impact.

The Bellona (yeee yee... still my favorite) has over the last year recieved an upgrade in details and "Art". At the cost of a lot of Polygones.

Now... for the details of the ship, the ornaments around the back, a creator might want to use modeling polygones in place. Because just simply painting on the details is not enough to him, and can never really convey a 3D feeling.
especially small details, streaks, flowers, nameplates on the back of a ship... and the names inside these nameplates... They couls be handled aith alphachannels.

How to?
Take the Hull, the finished, undetailed Hull, that has:
-recieved all the figurines and big 3D details.
-not yet recieved its ornaments, the smaller stuff.

The areas that are bound to be covered in details and engravings, put a layer of polygones on these areas. for example the backplate of a SOTL... soleil royal or somesuch.
Cover these areas in another layer of polygones. Like wrapping the areas up. Or applying a thick paste.
The polygones should be not ON the Hull. but a certain distance. a few centimeters. or two inches maybe.

The Hull gets the classic treatment for texturing. the backplate of the ship will get... red or blue or what have you, paint and a wooden texture.


here is the new bit...
The extra layer of polygones will be unwrapped/mapped/... on a different texture. Detail.tga.tx or soemthing.
That texture will get no paint.
except in the spots where the details, the small flowers, lines, crowns or such must be placed.
Painted with shadows, and with an alpha channel defined in Foodoshop, that texture will , in the game give the illusion of having a lot of detail in a certain area, at the cost of very very little polygones.

whats more:
the detail.tga.tx can be adjusted for the same hull to offer 3 different "3D" detailings, thus giving a different 3D feel.
taking the example of a nameplate, under the windows of a frigate:
The entire nameplate itself is in pseudo 3D.
Just the frame of the nameplate is visible.
The name itself can be adjusted... with paint, rather than polygones.
Less modeling. more paint.
...which i assume is less of a hassle.


Thinking of big vessels, like the Prinz Friedrich zu pferde, and a LOT of the first, second and third Rates, can be enhanced like this.

-condition:
good painting and alpha chanel application in Photoshop
hires textures for big areas (1024 or 2048 even)

 

[Armada]

I see what you mean, some models do have a large amount of polygons for a vessel their size, and that could be reduced by replacing 3D ornaments with textured ones.

I think this variation in polygon usage is down to different modellers' preferences and techniques, along with how well the model is built as a whole.
Many of Pgargon's ships, such as the Bellona, make efficient use of polygons and basic use of textures, and most ornaments are physically modelled. I reckon that's actually fine, because he has allowed himself these extra polys through clean and efficient modelling of the rest of the ship. However, there is potential room for improvement with some more sophisticated texture mapping.

It also depends heavily on the ship itself. Older ships like the Friedrich Willem zu Pferde, for instance, wouldn't look quite the same if the stern ornaments were textured on. In fact, it actually seems to be an example of a highly-detailed ship which doesn't go over the top on polygons. Remarkably, even with that heavily ornamented stern, the ship uses fewer polygons than the Bellona, so they must have been used sparingly in some places.

If I use the Rossiya as an example of a good compromise: I've been careful to use polygons sparingly, so they give the right shape without going too far. The rest is handled with high-detail textures, particularly on the stern. A large chunk of the total poly count is the cannons, as I've kept them all at the same high quality. I can only do that because the ship doesn't have too many guns; on the Bellona, which has many more, only the ones on the highest deck are full quality, and all the others are of a progressively lower quality further down the decks, because you can't see as much of them.

So, what can we do about it? Your suggestion of using an extra layer of flat polygons to add textured details is one option, and we've made use of that on ships like the Queen Anne's Revenge.
On the other hand, some clever modelling and texture mapping can eliminate the need for extra layers altogether.
Adjusting old models to fit this concept would take quite a while, but in the meantime, I expect modellers will continue to offer advice to each other so that all future models are built well and efficiently.

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

Oh, again... its just a thought of mine.

similar to the your Rossiya, where i dared to think out loud, this is much of the same thing.
a proposition, a way to do things.

I am at the moment sailing a Superbe, another of PParagons BIG ones. As you say, the overall ship is accurate as can be - but therefor the sugar icing had to suffer somewhat.
and painting ornaments on her... So-So!

The discipline shown in the Polygon department is awesome, and a key element in the accurate creation of both Vessels.
Without that discipline... Fps would drop dramatically, or the game might freeze or something.
None of his work would be possile to use.
I mean... compared to other, older big SOTLs... especiially the default ones... no need to comment!

This is, i hope, not seen as a direct request.
The goal of the idea is not to create work, merely tooffer a way of detailing future ships with few polygons.
FEWER work is what i am aiming for.
fewer modeling work, and same or better ornaments on those rich ships.

I shall keep an eye out for a QAR. She is, one of the ships i avoid... she is a Zombie to me.
But next time i see one, i will grab her and take look up close.

Glad that you folks are very much aware of this idea.