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    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Musician interested in Composing

Isn't Post Captain's description very similar to what New Horizons has become?
I really hope so. What I'm afraid of is just a sailing/navy simulator. I want to play and make ADVENTURES.
Even if they should get close to some of those clichees.

We want to cater for pirates and privateers alike, not just one or the other.
Sounds good enough!

So...
This will be a pirate game too. There will be a lot of land-based actions.:)
 
Absolutely mate! I'll state it again, pirates WILL be a big part of this game! And this time, not just in the Caribbean, our goal is a game that encompass as much of the worlds trade routes during the period as possible. The Mediterranean and North Africa, the Ivory Coast, West Africa through the South China Sea and hopefully eventually Russia and possibly Japan as well. Without those big juicy trade routes, there would have never been a Golden Age! If we are going to do this, we may as well do it properly and include as much as what we have always wanted as possible, otherwise what is the point?

There will always be some references to pirate cliche's in any pirate game, it simply can not be avoided as they have become so ingrained in our modern society. The same can be said for the fantasy elements as well, and as much as I would like to have those completely removed, they are part of the reason that some people even play the games. How we choose to add both will be key to making this game enjoyable to play.

Ok, back on topic ...with all those different cultures, there will be a need for many different types of music on many different instruments, and over many different eras. I do agree with Pieter though, we really should have some main title music to start with before we even think about all the other stuff.

TKP, take all the time you need mate, and work on what you want, we are in no hurry.
 
I really hope so. What I'm afraid of is just a sailing/navy simulator. I want to play and make ADVENTURES.
Even if they should get close to some of those clichees.
As do I! As much as I like realism, I have ZERO objections to some good old-fashioned pirate clichees.
Ideally, I'd like the game too allow you to play as if in a pirate adventure movie as well as allow for more realistic gameplay as well.
But since I already work on ships in real life, I'm more interested in some escapist fun rather than a full-on simulator.
As long as we consider everybody's preferences and try to make everyone happy at the same time, with toggles only if necessary, there should be a LOT to enjoy.
 
Bah. Rule Britannia! :p

taking%20of%20the%20java.jpg
'merica! Hell yeah!

:cheeky

So...
This will be a pirate game too. There will be a lot of land-based actions.:)

You misconstrued my statement. It won't be a pirate game, it will be an Age of Sail game, which includes every aspect of that age in realistic proportions. Navies, merchants, privateers, pirates, smugglers, etc.

I really hope so. What I'm afraid of is just a sailing/navy simulator. I want to play and make ADVENTURES.
Even if they should get close to some of those clichees.

Sailing square riggers is fun. I do it a lot, and it never gets less fun. A sailing simulation (can be toggled) would add a lot to the gameplay. There isn't much of a difference between pirates and the navy in the area of playing styles. (Except for the fact that everyone is trying to kill you if you're a pirate, including most other pirates.)

I'm not going to try to sugar-coat this, but it is not my intention to offend anybody.
I think that we can avoid cliches and make a truly good game. If you want cliches and arcade gameplay, I feel that there are plenty of other games for that. We have a chance to make something truly unique here, and I think that we should take that chance.
 
There is obviously some different interests in the new game. If we can we agree to let different gamestyles
live side by side I'm satisfied. Believe it or not but I would also like to play as a Hornblower character, meet the guys
from the 95:th etc etc.

If I learn how to make stories in the UDK it will probably be someting piratelike though.

A clichee like buried treasures can make interesting gameplay so it's difficult for me to have any problem with those.

Realism: Maybe not many skeletons. Hope you don't mind a little 'magic light' in the Claire Voyant style.
 
I think there is more than enough room to have all our different interest co-exist side by side in one game, they are interconnected in a very unique way. Similar to what they where in real life 400 years ago.

Personally, I am not entirely opposed to having some fantasy elements in game, however they should be rare and not used like a bludgeon to explain every plot twist the way Disney has done. But I know we won't get that from your storylines Jack, you do fantastic work mate!
 
'merica! Hell yeah!

:cheeky
Multiplayer will be fun, don't you think... :walkplank

I think there is more than enough room to have all our different interest co-exist side by side in one game, they are interconnected in a very unique way. Similar to what they where in real life 400 years ago.

Personally, I am not entirely opposed to having some fantasy elements in game, however they should be rare and not used like a bludgeon to explain every plot twist the way Disney has done.
I think as long as there are no fish people and no ships covered in seaweed (except wrecks), we should be fine. :onya
 
I think as long as there are no fish people and no ships covered in seaweed (except wrecks), we should be fine. :onya
LOL! But if somebody decides to add those as part of their own storyline, I don't have any objections to that either. :shrug
 
Not for 1500-1630 or so they wouldn't. Violins weren't even in common use by then, and were still in their infancy.

One of my degrees is in music performance, and I feel I must point out that the SOUND of the violin would have still been common.
The Violin may have been in its infancy as you say, but its predecessor the Viol (which is held and played the same way and sounds very similar) along with its many variants was a medieval instrument and was very common - and not just played by single musicians. There is actually more surviving music than you might think for groups - although most of it is by unknown composers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viol "The first consort of viols formed by four players was documented at the end of the fifteenth century in the courts of Mantua and Ferrara, but was also present within the popular Venetian music ambient (Scuola Grande di San Marco, 1499), which was extraneous to the foreign Spanish influence and consequently to the instruments of those lands (vihuela de arco). Groups of viol players, generally called Violoni, were established in the Venetian Scuole Grandi around 1530/40, but the highly traditional environment of these institutions suggests that these groups had already been active in the urban context during the previous two decades (1510-1520). Some of these players were known to have traveled to distant lands, including Vienna, the Duchy of Bavaria or the Kingdom of England where they were welcomed at the court of the Tudors and subsequently influenced England’s local instrumental production."

A couple more points. If I get the financial backing I'm hoping for, I've already planned several music soundtrack options for my commercial game. One will be more modern, one will be cinematic in the tradition of Hornigold and Rozsa, and one will be period classical. If you've played GOF you will notice that the music I picked wasn't necessarily always period, but was selected specifically for the mood/scene intended. When I created that mod I was looking at music that might appear in a really well done historical movie. Unlike my story writing, I have received numerous positive comments on the music in GOF.

A game tells a story - YOUR story - and so purely droning lutes, hurdy gurdies, and sea shanties - while cool - are going to seriously lack in both mood and color for specific backdrops/experiences. When selecting music one should think about it being your own private movie soundtrack. Just my two cents.

Rackham is right. Pirates are a must! ARRRR! :pflagMK
 
The only reason I didn't bring viols up was the "where are we going to find one of those" issue. They did sound kind of like violins, but there was a difference. That general type of sound has been around for an extremely long time. (Remember that medieval fiddle I was building?)

I only brought up those other instruments because they are all instruments that I have access to. I'd like some viols for a period track, but that may end up being me using pre-existing music that I've already purchased.

We do need pirates, but in realistic proportions with naval vessels, merchantmen, privateers, smugglers, whalers, and packets. What I don't want are pirates every twenty feet walking around and saying arrr with every step. Or overly romanticized pirates. They were criminals, not the good guys.
 
We do need pirates, but in realistic proportions with naval vessels, merchantmen, privateers, smugglers, whalers, and packets. What I don't want are pirates every twenty feet walking around and saying arrr with every step. Or overly romanticized pirates. They were criminals, not the good guys.

Your opinion mate, and you are welcome to it, but the fact is America would not be here today without pirates. This conversation needs to take place in it's own thread, this one is really starting to get a bit off topic. With statements like that, it is only going to get worse from here. Lets keep the conversation on music here please.
 
...the music I picked wasn't necessarily always period, but was selected specifically for the mood/scene intended.
I havn't played GOF but I like your ideas about music choice. I also think of 2001 and A clockwork orange were the picked music
surely wasn't period but very original and created an unique athmosphere.

Sorry for having started this pirate conversation here.
 
I would definitely like to see a game world with a LOT of different types of characters and ships at sea, such as the naval vessels, merchantmen, privateers, smugglers, whalers and packets you mention.
There should be the possibility of playing as a romanticized pirate as well, with perhaps eventually some storylines to that extent, but in general gameplay, indeed the pirates should be bad guys.

Anyway, let's cut that discussion short here. Tomorrow I intend to write an overview of what I think the game should become. Then we can discuss this stuff as comments on that instead in its own thread. :doff
 
Multiplayer will be fun, don't you think...
Indeed it shall! 'merica!...wait no, Rule Britannia!
Haha I'll have to switch between the two...I'm half English, dual citizenship and all:p
The topic of realism vs piratey stereotypes vs fantasy elements seems to come up in every other thread, we should probably define our full intentions in the design document or something. However i don't know that we can define exactly how we will keep different elements separate until the game is much more developed.
 
The topic of realism vs piratey stereotypes vs fantasy elements seems to come up in every other thread, we should probably define our full intentions in the design document or something. However i don't know that we can define exactly how we will keep different elements separate until the game is much more developed.
We'll do that once Pieter gets his overview done, and we are mostly agreed on each section of the game. I agree it's a priority; right now there's not enough info on the game.
 
The only reason I didn't bring viols up was the "where are we going to find one of those" issue. They did sound kind of like violins, but there was a difference.

The sound difference is negligable really. I do actually own one with the crazy out-turned bows to boot. All I have to really do to get my violin to sound like it is put the mute on the bridge or stuff a little tissue paper in the f-holes. They hadn't learned to make the viol project as loud, but the sound is pretty much the same.

My point is that a string track is a string track and the subject of this thread was that a dedicated musician is willing to make music for the game. I'm pretty sure if he's composing he has a little magical item known as a synthesizer that will nicely replicate thousands of sounds ....to include viols and violins. If he wants to do string tracks for early era gameplay I see nothing stopping him.

....(pirates) They were criminals, not the good guys.

Sorry to ressurrect the dead horse for a moment....BUT....REALLY????? :shrugThat comment smacks of late era tunnel-vision. Francis Drake and Piet Heyn were both branded pirates by the Spanish Empire. If they had been caught they would have been tried by the Inquisition and burned. They along with dozens of others like them were NOT criminals to their own people, they WERE the "good guys". Maybe you should try reading about the Golden Age a little more. :razz

Here's a video of a Vielle(viol) being played. MK

 
Thanks for the video MK, good stuff mate! :onya
 
They along with dozens of others like them were NOT criminals to their own people, they WERE the "good guys". Maybe you should try reading about the Golden Age a little more. :razz

Here's a video of a Vielle(viol) being played. MK

I was making generalizations there. What about the hundreds of others who attacked merchantmen simply for personal gain? They were certainly a majority.

Which viols are we talking about here? The viols of the 17th century, or vielles or fidels of the middle ages? The one in the video is more of the Memling form of the 1450's. I own one, and it sounds quite different from a violin. It is also fairly loud.
 
I disagree. You should read about the Dunkirkers and Sea Beggars. Historically there was never more active open piracy anywhere in the world than that of the operations of the Dunkirkers - even surpassing the Barbary Pirates. I mean they did operate for three quarters of a century. The archetypal ne'er-do-wells you refer to were a trickle compared to the earlier widespread piracy of the 17th century that usually had much more noble or vengeful motives behind their efforts.

Read my post again. You said Violins were in their infancy (thus the type of music they played available for the early period was limited) and I disagreed and said that the violin's very similar older brothers had been in common use since medieval times (thus that type of music would have been commonplace in the early era of the game - so should be produced for the game's soundtrack.) - so medieval to answer...

"Fairly loud" is subjective. Notice that the musician in the video needs a microphone to project in that large performance space. I have required the same in the past with very capable violins. I think I am a good source of experience in this area. A million years back before my military career I actually played semi-professionally. Pinchas Zukermann even actually allowed me to play his Stradivarius on one occasion.

My own teacher owned a 17th century Guarneri that I was allowed to perform on several times. (I actually liked the Guarneri more than the Strad) I've actually played two Guarneris and I myself own a couple of very good Roths and an early 19th century Czech violin that all project almost as good as the really top of the line - high value instruments.

My own Viol is not the only one I have played. I can tell you that in comparison to the violins, the viol is capable of maybe a little over half of their volumn. I still contend though that the sound itself is nearly the same. The difference is in the roundness and fullness of color and tone. The viol is confined and more tinney and quiet even though the sound is the same. The violin produces deep loud tones without the tinney rattle of its older sibling. I look at it as the flintlock that evolved from the earlier matchlock - held the same way and with almost the same "boom". :pirate41:

Hopefully the musician that started this thread hasn't been scared away by all of the meticulous discussions of period authenticity. I'm sure whatever he produces will be good and of utility somewhere in the game.

MK
 
When I said violins are in their infancy, I meant violins, and violins only. Similar instruments have existed since before the eleventh century. Again, I own one. My Memling fiddle has been mistaken for some odd violin many times by people who don't know any better. I feel that violins and viols do sound different, but that is more a matter of opinion, and of sensitivity to those things. I'm fairly picky when it comes to music, and I don't think that we'll persuade each other one way or the other. They do sound similar when viewed from a larger scale, I suppose.

When I said fairly loud, I meant that my Memling fiddle, if played properly, can get as loud as a modern violin. Due to the gut strings and body shape, it sounds nothing at all like a violin. I actually prefer the sound. I haven't had the same exposure to those instruments as you, but I have had plenty of access to a few very nice violins. Not as nice or old as the Stradivariuses or the like, but relatively old with wonderful tone.

Kind of off topic, but this guy is particularly good. My fidula (I like the Spanish name, for some reason) is tuned an octave lower at the moment, and fretted like some violas da gamba with the frets tied on. My bow is basically a nicely shaped piece of yew strung with a small amount black horse hair held by stopper knots at each end.
When I finished building mine (not the one above), I was pleasantly surprised that it matched the Memling painting exactly, down to the colors of the various components. The materials used are completely accurate, excluding the sitka spruce back. (It was such a nice piece of wood that I just had to use it.)

TKP: Feel free to skip over these. Right now, we need multiple styles and types of music, so you can do whatever you are most interested in doing at the moment.
 
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