Discussion Excited and thankful!

[Gfresco]

I just discovered the build/new Horizons mod recently and am blown away by the effort put into it and teeming with excitement to try it! I live on a farm in the Canadian rocky mountains so Internet here isn't quick to download.

I played the original PoTC game back in 2003 when I was 10 years old. I adored the game but hated the lack of character selection, the fact that there was an "ending" to the sandbox mode, and dreamed of the possibility of direct sail. As I grew up I always assumed there'd be a sequel or, well, someone would produce a commercial pirate game with all the features PoTC Build/Horizons has. But it never came, and never came. Recently the urge to play a good pirate game returned and I kept googling, looking for for one. Then I saw a Kotaku article discussing the 10 years of modding for PoTC and I knew I had to check it out.

Anyhow, I want to express gratitude to the team & persons who put their time into this incredible project. I'm sure you all did it for your own reasons, but you literally created a 10 year olds dream. I used to wish as a kid I could tell game developers what to do, to have the games I always wanted to play, and you guys went ahead and did exactly what I would of wanted.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks a lot, @Gfresco! We're always glad to hear our work is appreciated.

As I grew up I always assumed there'd be a sequel

There were actually several sequels:
Age of Pirates/Sea Dogs: Caribbean Tales
Age of Pirates 2/Sea Dogs: City of Abandoned Ships
Sea Dogs: To Each His Own

Technically all those games are based on (newer versions of) the same game engine.
PotC is "the odd duck out" as it was developed as "Sea Dogs 2" before it was commandeered by Disney to serve as a last-minute movie tie-in.

 

[Gfresco]

I guess those sequels do count! Maybe its me being silly but I always felt they were sort of variations on the same theme and didn't really take the game significantly further. Maybe I just have unreasonable definitions.

Anyhow, I'm still stunned that every time I think of a feature, or idea, I want in a pirate game it seems you guys have already done it or are working on it. Its inspiring! Maybe if I can get good with 3dsMax again I'll be able to contribute some character models some day (I used to make character model mods for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas but I've never been much of a pro).

Anyhow, you guys REALLY deserve to be reminded how awesome your efforts into modding this game is. I can't wait to try some Iron-Man direct-sail adventures!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I guess those sequels do count! Maybe its me being silly but I always felt they were sort of variations on the same theme and didn't really take the game significantly further. Maybe I just have unreasonable definitions.

The sequels do have some improvements, mainly on graphics and a bit more advanced fencing system.
But for me, nothing beats PotC:NH when it comes to varied content and features.

Anyhow, I'm still stunned that every time I think of a feature, or idea, I want in a pirate game it seems you guys have already done it or are working on it. Its inspiring! Maybe if I can get good with 3dsMax again I'll be able to contribute some character models some day (I used to make character model mods for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas but I've never been much of a pro).

It's been a long time since anyone did character models here! Would be nice to have some new/improved ones.

Anyhow, you guys REALLY deserve to be reminded how awesome your efforts into modding this game is.

I can't wait to try some Iron-Man direct-sail adventures!

That'll be tough! I added that to the game thinking it'd awesome, but never found the time to actually do it myself.
Outside of a 30 minute test of mine almost 4 years ago. Here's what I wrote about it at the time:

I just did a quick test to see if the Iron Man Mode toggle works and indeed it does.
It is also incredible just how much that changes the game. Even during the quick test I did just sailing around Puerto Rico (with PLENTY time compression),
the lack of Sail-To, Worldmap and Spyglass really forces you into the game world.

First, I noticed that I didn't see any other ships straight out of port, like normally I do. And it was foggy too.
So I started sailing around the island, trying to find other ships. In the meantime, the fog started clearing a bit, but it was getting dark too.
Night came and went, had to turn around because the wind was coming from the other direction and just as I was getting dubious on ever encountering another ship,
there was a Spanish Bermuda Sloop. I had been flying a fake Spanish flag myself, but I only noticed they had recognized me when they opened fire.

Just feels so much more real like that, doesn't it? NO interfaces telling you what ships are around, no log messages telling you that you're recognized,
no spyglass telling you the nation of the ships you encounter. Too bad I can't afford to play much like that, but it IS cool!

 

[Gfresco]

Oh man, so it finished downloading last night and... Well, there may be something to what you said above. I was up until like 5:30am playing Iron Man, hah. I tried sailing from the Bahamas to Grenada but lets just say my navigation skills leave something to be desired. After around 6 days at sea I think I just did a long elaborate loop around the island I started from and just ported at her other settlement. D'oh!

I think for now I'm going to do realistic-mode and maybe switch to direct-sail for approaches/exits from islands. I'll have to test what direct-sail feels like in realistic mode, as I recall a setting saying the distances between islands are enhanced for realism in iron man. Also maybe with a compass item I won't do a shameful loop. I admit it, guys, I NEED a compass.

I'm loving the amount of dynamic content you guys added. Having a living-breathing world that isn't just a flimsy stage for a silly storyline is such a nice change from vanilla. It makes it actually exciting to play, unsure what adventures can occur. That's what I crave in games is a world that feels real & alive to adventure in. It makes me curious to look at the level of scripting/coding required to contribute. Maybe after 2-3 years of staring at it I'll be able to contribute. Maybe. Hah.

Oh, I did try the castaway iron-man start like the tutorial suggests but after being beaten to death by scary monkeys in stormy jungle 4-5 times I admit I was too impatient to try the other features in the game and switched to an "adventurer" free play start

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Oh man, so it finished downloading last night and... Well, there may be something to what you said above. I was up until like 5:30am playing Iron Man, hah. I tried sailing from the Bahamas to Grenada but lets just say my navigation skills leave something to be desired. After around 6 days at sea I think I just did a long elaborate loop around the island I started from and just ported at her other settlement. D'oh!

If you open PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h with Notepad, at the top you can enable some parts of the realism functionality by itself.
So you can make a Realistic Game Mode + whatever Iron Man features you do want, to make a "custom realism mode".

I think for now I'm going to do realistic-mode and maybe switch to direct-sail for approaches/exits from islands. I'll have to test what direct-sail feels like in realistic mode, as I recall a setting saying the distances between islands are enhanced for realism in iron man. Also maybe with a compass item I won't do a shameful loop. I admit it, guys, I NEED a compass.

That's the general idea!
Without a compass, you should really be forced to do coast-hopping and maybe using the direction of the rising/setting sun to figure out which way you're going.
With Iron Man Game Mode, navigation equipment becomes REALLY important.
Similarly with a Chronometer and Sextant which, together, will plot your position on the Map Interface.

I'm loving the amount of dynamic content you guys added. Having a living-breathing world that isn't just a flimsy stage for a silly storyline is such a nice change from vanilla. It makes it actually exciting to play, unsure what adventures can occur. That's what I crave in games is a world that feels real & alive to adventure in. It makes me curious to look at the level of scripting/coding required to contribute. Maybe after 2-3 years of staring at it I'll be able to contribute. Maybe. Hah.

You can start by tweaking simple things.
If you run into anything you think could do with some improving and don't know how, ask here and we can probably point you in the right direction.

Oh, I did try the castaway iron-man start like the tutorial suggests but after being beaten to death by scary monkeys in stormy jungle 4-5 times I admit I was too impatient to try the other features in the game and switched to an "adventurer" free play start

We call that the "Stormy Start", which was actually added to the modpack before the Storylines were ever included.
The main purpose was to give players who are bored with Ye Olde Tutorial something new to do.
But since you're just beginning with the mod, it's not a bad thing to just play through the Tutorial because it explains some mod-added content too.

There is also a "Castaway" Free Play start, which was formerly the "EVIL Stormy Start" and does exactly what you might expect:
It is the "Stormy Start" included with the regular Tutorial; but much, much harder.
Fun option to have for when you really want a challenge!

 

[Gfresco]

If you open PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h with Notepad, at the top you can enable some parts of the realism functionality by itself.
So you can make a Realistic Game Mode + whatever Iron Man features you do want, to make a "custom realism mode".

Funky! I'll certainly give it a try. I want to balance the most realistic/challenging gameplay without QUITE the burden of time iron man mode creates. Like the shorter distances of realism with the navigation restrictions of Iron Man is probably what I'll try next. I don't like trips to be instant but there is a certain length/tedium to a truly realistic scale as if I'm going to play for a few hours a night its nice to accomplish more than 1 trip.

That's the general idea!
Without a compass, you should really be forced to do coast-hopping and maybe using the direction of the rising/setting sun to figure out which way you're going.
With Iron Man Game Mode, navigation equipment becomes REALLY important.
Similarly with a Chronometer and Sextant which, together, will plot your position on the Map Interface.

I am a lousy coast hopper! I was reading the "tutorial" and the guy made it sound simply enough. I figured "hey, head west with a southward tilt and you'll find your destination" and that somehow cued a 8 day journey around the same frickin island. I've certainly room to improve but for now

You can start by tweaking simple things.
If you run into anything you think could do with some improving and don't know how, ask here and we can probably point you in the right direction.

That's the plan. Doing complex stuff requires time and familiarity and with mods its very easy to have big wish-lists that are beyond the scope of ones abilities. I'm not the most skilled or inclined to mod games but my sheer determination to create the gameplay/characters I like has lead me to some basic ability in modding other games. I've been perusing the modding tutorial here but honestly I'm too eager to play (besides why edit anything before I even know about 1/3rd of whats out there!) to soak it in right now. My winters are dull though so who knows what cabin-fever will lead me to do tnext winer

We call that the "Stormy Start", which was actually added to the modpack before the Storylines were ever included.
The main purpose was to give players who are bored with Ye Olde Tutorial something new to do.
But since you're just beginning with the mod, it's not a bad thing to just play through the Tutorial because it explains some mod-added content too.

There is also a "Castaway" Free Play start, which was formerly the "EVIL Stormy Start" and does exactly what you might expect:
It is the "Stormy Start" included with the regular Tutorial; but much, much harder.
Fun option to have for when you really want a challenge!

The Castaway Free Play start is what I tried. I REALLY wanted to slog through it and I know it'd make getting my character established that much more satisfying but after a scary demon-monkey mauled me to death during lightning-storms for the 5th time I was too impatient to see the mods features to endure the beatings.

I am having a delight on my Adventurer character, imagining a story for the character though. I really love the extra roleplaying/immersion elements. I'm also surprised/impressed some dialogue actually recognizes the gender selection of the character, that's attention to detail right there!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Funky! I'll certainly give it a try. I want to balance the most realistic/challenging gameplay without QUITE the burden of time iron man mode creates. Like the shorter distances of realism with the navigation restrictions of Iron Man is probably what I'll try next. I don't like trips to be instant but there is a certain length/tedium to a truly realistic scale as if I'm going to play for a few hours a night its nice to accomplish more than 1 trip.

Makes complete sense!

You should be able to do pretty much that using InternalSettings.h .

I am a lousy coast hopper! I was reading the "tutorial" and the guy made it sound simply enough. I figured "hey, head west with a southward tilt and you'll find your destination" and that somehow cued a 8 day journey around the same frickin island. I've certainly room to improve but for now

Your reasoning is sound. Just need to know where "West" is.

That's the plan. Doing complex stuff requires time and familiarity and with mods its very easy to have big wish-lists that are beyond the scope of ones abilities. I'm not the most skilled or inclined to mod games but my sheer determination to create the gameplay/characters I like has lead me to some basic ability in modding other games. I've been perusing the modding tutorial here but honestly I'm too eager to play (besides why edit anything before I even know about 1/3rd of whats out there!) to soak it in right now. My winters are dull though so who knows what cabin-fever will lead me to do tnext winer

Indeed playing is probably the best place to start.

The Castaway Free Play start is what I tried. I REALLY wanted to slog through it and I know it'd make getting my character established that much more satisfying but after a scary demon-monkey mauled me to death during lightning-storms for the 5th time I was too impatient to see the mods features to endure the beatings.

You can try again some time later. It probably IS fun to do. But decidedly the opposite of easy.

I am having a delight on my Adventurer character, imagining a story for the character though. I really love the extra roleplaying/immersion elements.

Two role-playing element I'm really quite proud of are the new Nation Relations and "playing styles". You can find some details on the Wiki:
New Horizons Playing Styles | PiratesAhoy!
and
New Horizons International Relations | PiratesAhoy!

I'm also surprised/impressed some dialogue actually recognizes the gender selection of the character, that's attention to detail right there!

That was indeed quite a pain to get working somewhat right at long last!
Glad to hear it finally paid off.

 

[Grey Roger]

Two role-playing element I'm really quite proud of are the new Nation Relations and "playing styles". You can find some details on the Wiki:
New Horizons Playing Styles | PiratesAhoy!
and
New Horizons International Relations | PiratesAhoy!

I've just made a couple of minor corrections to the "Playing Styles" section.

• Only gain land after rank 7 (Commodore)

(used to say "Only gain land after rank 6 (Commodore)")

• - Triggered by buying a Letter of Marque or by choosing "Corsair" at game start

(added the bit 'or by choosing "Corsair" at game start')

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I've just made a couple of minor corrections to the "Playing Styles" section. (used to say "Only gain land after rank 6 (Commodore)")

The wording may have been a bit odd, but I thought it was technically accurate.
It literally meant you start gaining land after rank 6, so AT rank 7 (which is "Commodore").
The reason for saying "after 6" instead of "at 7" is because that is literally how it is coded.

(added the bit 'or by choosing "Corsair" at game start')

Thanks for that!

 

[Grey Roger]

The wording may have been a bit odd, but I thought it was technically accurate.
It literally meant you start gaining land after rank 6, so AT rank 7 (which is "Commodore").
The reason for saying "after 6" instead of "at 7" is because that is literally how it is coded.

That might even have worked if, a few lines down, it didn't say "Cannot Swap Ships until rank 7 (Commodore)". I can change it to say that you gain land after rank 6 (Post Captain), which at least is consistent.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That might even have worked if, a few lines down, it didn't say "Cannot Swap Ships until rank 7 (Commodore)".

If I recall, they're both technically true. And if I recall, the wording is again because of the same reason:
The ship swapping has the number "7" in its check in the code, while the "land gaining" has the number "6" in the code.
The end result should be though that once you become a Commodore (rank 7), you start gaining land AND are allowed to swap ships.

The reason for using different numbers in the explanation is to have the explanation in line with the code, just in case anyone might ever get confused on that.
And the reason for using the "Commodore" name in both cases is for regular players to indicate that, regardless of the wording, both things happen at the same rank.
Looks like my careful attempts at preventing any confusion have failed miserably.

 

[Grey Roger]

OK, it's now changed to "Only gain land after rank 6 (Post Captain)". The logic for saying "after rank 6" is sound, and in both lines the rank name matches the rank number, provided you're in the British navy.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

OK, it's now changed to "Only gain land after rank 6 (Post Captain)". The logic for saying "after rank 6" is sound, and in both lines the rank name matches the rank number, provided you're in the British navy.

Very well then. Hopefully people understand the subtle differences between the words "after" and "until"....

 

[Gfresco]

Your reasoning is sound. Just need to know where "West" is.

On a cloudy day in the open ocean with no compass, that is a challenge. Makes me respect the development of sailing/sea travel more though, not so simple as "just float and your good".


Indeed playing is probably the best place to start.

You can try again some time later. It probably IS fun to do. But decidedly the opposite of easy.

I probably will. I do love a masochistic start.

Two role-playing element I'm really quite proud of are the new Nation Relations and "playing styles". You can find some details on the Wiki:
New Horizons Playing Styles | PiratesAhoy!
and
New Horizons International Relations | PiratesAhoy!

I saw! In my own game I was all eager to be a privateer but y'know, my ship was pretty lousy and my boarding-skills not yet developed so I rapidly devolved into a pretty reckless smuggler after simply needing a way to turn good profit off a small boat. Fun how the game takes its own course.

That was indeed quite a pain to get working somewhat right at long last!
Glad to hear it finally paid off.

Haha, for the most part. A few amusing instances of "Senorita" followed up by "What an upstanding young man!" which gives me the giggles, but hardly is something that matters in the slightest. I can think of a billion better things to do then trying to "fix" that.


One question I have for any of you guys, beyond the ship identification guide, is there any over-view of the different ship types & their pro's and cons? I'm struggling making educated guesses as to what ship suits what style beyond the basics. I COULD just be a lousy sailor, but for example I still can't catch most sloops in my schooner despite a higher speed/maneuver. I always seem to swap ships than regret it.

I guess being such a land lubber irl I don't have much sense of ship types and naval tactics. If you guys could point me anywhere to read up on either, if you know of a place, that'd be swell!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

On a cloudy day in the open ocean with no compass, that is a challenge. Makes me respect the development of sailing/sea travel more though, not so simple as "just float and your good".

Welcome to the world of actual period seafarers!
They would've had the exact same problem in real life.

I saw! In my own game I was all eager to be a privateer but y'know, my ship was pretty lousy and my boarding-skills not yet developed so I rapidly devolved into a pretty reckless smuggler after simply needing a way to turn good profit off a small boat. Fun how the game takes its own course.

The best part is that the game doesn't really lock you into anything, so you can be a straight Privateer, but also one who does Smuggling, Piracy or Trading on the side.
Not all of those combinations are equally easy to maintain though.

The Nations Relations system ensures that actions do have consequences; sometimes severe ones.
So one major misstep as a Naval Officer could force you into a career as Pirate.

Haha, for the most part. A few amusing instances of "Senorita" followed up by "What an upstanding young man!" which gives me the giggles, but hardly is something that matters in the slightest. I can think of a billion better things to do then trying to "fix" that.

Ah yes, the voice Greetings aren't particularly clever.
It is mainly the written text that we've focused on getting right.

One question I have for any of you guys, beyond the ship identification guide, is there any over-view of the different ship types & their pro's and cons? I'm struggling making educated guesses as to what ship suits what style beyond the basics. I COULD just be a lousy sailor, but for example I still can't catch most sloops in my schooner despite a higher speed/maneuver. I always seem to swap ships than regret it.

A lot comes down to personal preference and actual experience, I imagine.
Ship stats are somewhat randomised and can be affected by upgrades, so it is virtually impossible to give any hard truths.
There is a list of ships you can access via the Wiki though; that might help.
Other than that, maybe @Grey Roger, @ANSEL or @Hylie Pistof could share some of their wisdom here?

I guess being such a land lubber irl I don't have much sense of ship types and naval tactics.

No worries there; I wouldn't really know either and I was actually a navigation officer at sea for a good few years!
I suppose modern motorised cruise ships are not comparable to old school sailing vessels!

 

[Grey Roger]

Dialog text is relatively easy to fix; it's just a matter of spotting the error, finding the relevant files, and doing a bit of editing. Voice files are never going to be fixed unless someone records new ones.

One question I have for any of you guys, beyond the ship identification guide, is there any over-view of the different ship types & their pro's and cons? I'm struggling making educated guesses as to what ship suits what style beyond the basics. I COULD just be a lousy sailor, but for example I still can't catch most sloops in my schooner despite a higher speed/maneuver. I always seem to swap ships than regret it.

You can have a look in "PROGRAM\Ships\Ships_init.c" to see the basic data. Also, ships with fore-aft sails, such as sloops, do better in cross-winds or even winds blowing partly from ahead. If the wind is blowing from the west and that sloop is heading northwest, you'll have a hard job catching it in anything with square sails.

Your "Sailing" skill also plays a part. Hire a navigator with decent "Sailing" skill, or failing that, hire a navigator anyway - he specialises in the job and will gain "Sailing" skill more quickly than you. And when he gains a few levels, you can give him the sailing-related abilities, while you and those officers who accompany you ashore and in boardings can concentrate on the combat skills.

 

[Gfresco]

The dialog thing is mostly an amusing giggle. The fact that you guys actually tried to get gender-recognition in the text is pretty above and beyond already.

Good info on the for-aft sails, thats the sort of thing I didn't consider. I'm currently trying to play a sort of "interceptor" style where I can overtake, wound crew, and board them & the schooner wasn't working out so good. Makes a great smuggling vessel, though.

I'm looking forward to giving it another go tonight. I think my current "goal" is to capture a sloop-of-war to make my flagship.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Hire a navigator with decent "Sailing" skill, or failing that, hire a navigator anyway - he specialises in the job and will gain "Sailing" skill more quickly than you.

Great to hear that is actually working out now, after all the back and forth we did on that code!

 

[Grey Roger]

Good info on the for-aft sails, thats the sort of thing I didn't consider. I'm currently trying to play a sort of "interceptor" style where I can overtake, wound crew, and board them & the schooner wasn't working out so good. Makes a great smuggling vessel, though.

According to base data from "Ships_init.c", a schooner should indeed outclass a sloop on both speed and turn rate. But wind direction, your "Sailing" skill and the sloop captain's "Sailing" skill may give the sloop an advantage. Also, it's possible to upgrade ships, and ships you randomly encounter may already have some of these upgrades.

The strategy of closing in, hitting the target repeatedly with grapeshot, then boarding it if it doesn't surrender, is a good one. But there are better targets than sloops.

I'm looking forward to giving it another go tonight. I think my current "goal" is to capture a sloop-of-war to make my flagship.

The snag there is that a sloop of war will definitely be a warship with either a naval or pirate crew. These are tougher to beat. Merchant crews start off with lower morale and are generally less tough. You have a better chance of getting them to surrender after battering them with grapeshot, or if you board, the fight will be easier. Don't go for warships until you have good "Melee" skill, good weapons, good armour, and so do your officers. (You can also put weapons and armour into the weapons locker in your cabin. If you do, the crew will use them during boarding. Deck battles are a lot easier when everyone on your side has good armour and good swords, because the enemy doesn't use armour but does often have good swords.)

Prime targets are dual purpose ships. These are types which can be either naval or merchant. Most of these are fairly small, e.g. sloops, or the schooner. In the earlier periods, though, there are some very nice dual purpose ships, my favourite being the fast war galleon. In later periods there are a few pure merchant types which also make good raiding ships, e.g. the fast merchantman, which is basically a frigate with less firepower and more cargo space.